Yes, yes, and absolutely yes. We are in a spiritual war much greater than any man made organizations can handle. It's foolish to turn on one another in the face of the greater unity of the enemy.
Thank you for this thoughtful essay. As a westerner in Thailand, I have become convinced that the differences between religions, though real, are far less important than the chasm between tradition and modernity, even though, to some extent, almost all of us straddle it.
It is crazy to think how much time catholics and protestants spent killing each other. It seems impossible. Modernity has been good in that sense, taming that instinct, but it is going sour. Somehow we need to save the best of the modern and traditional, leave the worst of both behind.
I think we're in the midst of a massive purge and everything, everything comes up and out. Buried grievances and hidden maneuverings, and all the labels we've slapped on (and confined) human exploration, are in the mix.
'Christian', 'pagan', and any other path, both opens and closes at once, though of course, a lot of variability depending on the one journeying.
We're just humans alive and navigating and asking questions. We' all had to deal with the cultural contexts - and their histories - that we were born into. Most of which - as we're discovering - were distorted and tainted, at best. Whole-cloth lies at worst.
Maybe we've outgrown them all - and why not?
Something new is coming. We are getting an upgrade of sorts, Universe deciding that, and I'm not convinced any of those labels will matter. We're here now. New space/time setting. So much will be let go - which is scary. We don't know what will be left.
What essentialness is left when outdated and redundant systems (including religions and ideologies) are gone? I think that is what we are on the brink of discovering. The context itself is so expansive as to be spacious and we haven't yet imagined who we are in that kind of spaciousness. It must mirror something about our cosmic nature.
Clif High talks too - and others - about the increased 'space' frequencies currently bathing the planet and its obvious (though usually missed) effect on us. Resonates. It's not just the old paradigm or narradigms that's dissolving, its the versions of us, who we thought we were leaving too.
Nearly impossible to imagine what's breaking free. Which is why it makes sense how hard this controlling force is working at keeping us enslaved. Doesn't work, but it will likely take us to an 'all hope is lost' moment before the release happens.
I suspect those who align with self-sovereignty and individual choice are in coherence with those 'space' energies, and more likely to make it to the other side - and those who choose robotic compliance, do not. They are taking themselves out of the game. (Which is some context is still fine.)
I remain dubious about The Great Awakening, I feel I have been hearing about it all my life, and all I’ve seen is more of the same humans acting good and badly. But then it seems to me, the internet has given 7-8 billion something like a global awareness, hard to say how the will ultimately change consciousness.
It's hard to express without words and our words too were turned into tools of control. What do you do? You go deeper. It's the only move.
There is something under all that, beneath words, a deeper vein, unseen yet still fully present that exists.
I can trust that - in a step-by-step sort of way. Accessed in quiet, mostly. I don't call it spiritual. I'm not sure what that means anymore, or at least not sure it's meaningful on its own since it's all wrapped up in the physical and emotional and mental...
I think the striving thing - underlying assumption being we're not enough - is all about taking us out of ourselves, chasing ideas and images of something better.
It must be that we arrived equip, part of Nature and the natural world, with everything we needed. We're so far from that now, but it must be the case or we wouldn't be here.
Whatever is happening its always happening in the present, in a body. So much of life has been about taking us out of that orientation.
Originally, Latin 'paganus' meant simply someone living outside the city limits and not well-versed in then-Current Thing, which in ~4...5th century happened to be Nicene Christianity. (see also: Greek 'idiōtēs' which at some points has been used in a similar manner, although usually not implying rural residence)
Today, «the parties are switched», and most of us dissidents are 'pagans' and 'idiots' for the urban connoisseurs of now-Current Thing, and that includes most Christians, too.
I call myself 'pagan' as short hand. I really am more of a Western Ceremonialist or Western Occultist. Not gonna lie, I appreciate the Dion Fortune/Western traditional ties to Christianity and Christ, but it always makes me feel a little squidgy and I feel awkward using those symbols. Perhaps too long marinating in my 10-year-old BFF's Baptist Sunday School back in 1970 (as one comedian once said, you go in 9 o'clock on Sunday and come out on Tuesday) turned me off from the scene. This doesn't preclude working with Christians, but I would hope that at some point they would leave me alone vis a vis conversion. I'm not interested. Besides (as I've surely said before) a God that knows when a sparrow falls no doubt knows my heart and I suspect he/she/or it understands why I find the totemization of Jesus (and his death on the cross, which more seem to focus on than his words, works or even his resurrection) distasteful. -Also, given the history of Christianity, once it gets rid of pagan unbelievers, its own sects tend to turn on each other in the bid to be the 'correct' form. They should be happy we're here to give them some cohesiveness, LOL.
I think the closest the 'pagan' community has ever come to any kind of modern agreement is in movements like Theosophy which have informed the basis of many occult and pagan paths since the 1800's including the New Age movement (which I find as soft and flabby as the christianity you describe above). I think there is room for a more serious or 'muscular' paganism, but it is going to have to find it's own voice and venues apart from the fluffy bunny day-trippers, dilettantes and the left that has basically destroyed meeting places like Pantheacon by removing men's/women's spaces and allowing what one critic calls 'THE MESSAGE' to water down and obliterate traditional practices and beliefs. (on edit: I would also add that any serious paganism should avoid some of the fascistic tendancies of Evola, et al).
In short, I promise I won't burn churches if they promise not to burn me. Can't we all just get along? We really need to stand against the death of our country and constitution, you know, the one that offers freedom of conscience? Surely that should unite us?
I'm no particular fan of Evola, though I have not read much of his stuff. I would like to see a more organized and muscular paganism, but one that coexists peacefully with Christianity, as we together work to restore the promise of America. Otherwise most of the paganism I have encountered was a refuge for the kind of people who got mocked and beat up in high school by nominal "Christians", who still harbor a grudge.
Check out Imperium Press. They have repeatedly explained real folkish religion (paganism), and it's not Evola. People have been committed to the Germanic faith for decades at this point, including second-generation believers.
I know I always prefer to avoid conflict, and attempt to write my articles in such a way so as they're applicable to all faiths. They're obviously written by a Catholic, I don't hide that, but I try to make it so that any faith - Pagan, Protestant, Orthodox, etc - could also apply the same lessons into building a Polity.
Because, as you say, we're all in this war. We should acknowledge that. I know I don't go out looking for fights on here. I have some people that come to me, asking for it, and then yes I go at it. Should I avoid it? Maybe - hard to say. Usually it's inter-denominational Christian stuff though.
Anyways, thanks for the shout out. I greatly appreciate it, and always enjoy all feed back.
You are doing great work and I have appreciated your contribution to the East Meets West podcast. I’m not confrontational by nature either, though I brook no bs coming at me, or at friends. We need more friends these days.
In reality, I’m actually very confrontational. It’s by habit and will power that I aim at not being so. Trust me, those that know me in person would say my moniker is very apt.
But the New Testament prophecies refer to the one Temple in Jerusalem. Either these prophecies are wrong, or the End Times won't complete until the Temple is rebuilt.
Breeding of perfect red bulls has been done. I believe Netanyahu is bent on retaking the territory needed to rebuild the Temple. And if not Netanyahu, the politics of the area will elect someone else who will. The Hasidic vote is rather large.
If you want real magic, reread Revelations. If this causes too much confusion, read Daniel, Corinthians, Thessalonians, and the Synoptic Gospels for background. (And perhaps Ezekiel.) Expect some divergences from what you were taught in Sunday School.
You asked I answered. Islam earned my respect. It fights.
In truth every religion but Christianity fights now. The only one turning the other cheek is Christianity and it is and can go extinct. Worse than useless.
A trap, a civilizational shredder.
BTW Celt “Aodhan” and Teuton don’t mix, Ayran Brotherhood was founded by a Jew, and this is all 💩.
You can have the Shamrock ☘️ or the Swastika, not both.
Of course the Swastika is a Hindi good luck charm.
💩
Retarded: It’s nice to build out a community, but without defending it you’re simply creating a lucrative pillage target, since you bring up retarded.
The primary duty of men isn’t to hold fucking bake sales, it’s to fight, Mind you bake sales are at least some organization.
Now I don’t think you’re real, if you are you’re real dumb.
If you really want a based organization- and I am hostile to any passive male religion or organization- however if you want to be based community, consider the southern baptists, who are so community based they are vital in providing a reliable pool of trained rescue personnel to any American Red Cross disaster relief and recovery effort, and the American Red Cross is considered the core doers organization by FEMA (FEMA is an ATM 🏧).
This is not called Born on the Fouth of July for nothing. I also live in lily white central Minnesota, and defend white people at every opportunity. Islam will not rule here.
Ahnaf and I have sparred aplenty, as I consider Islam to be a religion bent on total global domination.. But he is unerringly respectful, and I respect him in turn.
Well, God is by Def everywhere;) Methinks too the Creator would rather we enjoy this extraordinary creation rather than spend our time trying to control others and kill each other off.
Me too. I am going to can 24 pints of sweet corn this week. But I don't eat a lot of corn fed beef, high fructose corn syrup assorted hundreds of corn derivatives, or corn chips like the bag is bottomless, lol.
I miss the midwest for that. Driving around with the scent of corn everywhere. My friends and I would buy dozens of ears, take them home, boil them up and have what amounted to hot buttered corn baccanals that would go on all nite until we couldn't eat anymore. Good times.
As a firm Christian myself, my two thoughts regarding neo-pagans are:
1. The ones I encounter online seem little different to me than Reddit atheists. They mostly talk about why Christianity is bad, or how they can show you Christianity is wrong. I don't know if I've ever seen them write or say anything about their own beliefs, or rituals, or practices, or anything else without it being related back to Christianity somehow. If you're just a pagan because you don't like Christianity, that's a shitty motivation and will lead you nowhere.
2. I have *never* encountered a pagan in real life. There is a real physical building made out of brick and wood and whatever else, called a church, where I can go every week and fellowship with real people. It provides a holistic framework which I am comfortable entrusting my entire life to. Every single aspect of me fits within that place and the beliefs it represents. I feel completely comfortable with the idea of raising my children there.
Neither pagans nor "vitalists" have anything like this. What would it mean to raise children as "vitalists?" Would I read Nietzsche to them at night instead of the Bible? I have no idea how that would even work. The enterprise sounds absurd to me, likely because the "vitalists" I've encountered seem very uninterested in things like family, children, or reproduction. I'd have much the same question for pagans. Are you going to raise your toddler telling him stories of Thor and Odin, expecting that he will grow up with genuine belief in these deities? How will you expect him to cope when he quickly comes to learn that literally everyone else in society considers such beliefs to be bizarre LARPs, at best?
Yes, yes, and absolutely yes. We are in a spiritual war much greater than any man made organizations can handle. It's foolish to turn on one another in the face of the greater unity of the enemy.
Thank you, and absolutely. Welcome here.
Thank you for this thoughtful essay. As a westerner in Thailand, I have become convinced that the differences between religions, though real, are far less important than the chasm between tradition and modernity, even though, to some extent, almost all of us straddle it.
It is crazy to think how much time catholics and protestants spent killing each other. It seems impossible. Modernity has been good in that sense, taming that instinct, but it is going sour. Somehow we need to save the best of the modern and traditional, leave the worst of both behind.
A much needed essay. Christians and Pagans fighting each other will get us nowhere and only distract us from the real problem.
Thank you. Much appreciated. And agreed.
I think we're in the midst of a massive purge and everything, everything comes up and out. Buried grievances and hidden maneuverings, and all the labels we've slapped on (and confined) human exploration, are in the mix.
'Christian', 'pagan', and any other path, both opens and closes at once, though of course, a lot of variability depending on the one journeying.
We're just humans alive and navigating and asking questions. We' all had to deal with the cultural contexts - and their histories - that we were born into. Most of which - as we're discovering - were distorted and tainted, at best. Whole-cloth lies at worst.
Maybe we've outgrown them all - and why not?
Something new is coming. We are getting an upgrade of sorts, Universe deciding that, and I'm not convinced any of those labels will matter. We're here now. New space/time setting. So much will be let go - which is scary. We don't know what will be left.
What essentialness is left when outdated and redundant systems (including religions and ideologies) are gone? I think that is what we are on the brink of discovering. The context itself is so expansive as to be spacious and we haven't yet imagined who we are in that kind of spaciousness. It must mirror something about our cosmic nature.
Amazing times. Thank you.
Mark Bisone thinks the veil is thinning, the unseen about to pour through, more active now than at any time in history. Ahnaf Ibn Qais to.
Thanks. I'll have to look into them.
Clif High talks too - and others - about the increased 'space' frequencies currently bathing the planet and its obvious (though usually missed) effect on us. Resonates. It's not just the old paradigm or narradigms that's dissolving, its the versions of us, who we thought we were leaving too.
Nearly impossible to imagine what's breaking free. Which is why it makes sense how hard this controlling force is working at keeping us enslaved. Doesn't work, but it will likely take us to an 'all hope is lost' moment before the release happens.
I suspect those who align with self-sovereignty and individual choice are in coherence with those 'space' energies, and more likely to make it to the other side - and those who choose robotic compliance, do not. They are taking themselves out of the game. (Which is some context is still fine.)
Of course IDK. And my view is highly limited.
I remain dubious about The Great Awakening, I feel I have been hearing about it all my life, and all I’ve seen is more of the same humans acting good and badly. But then it seems to me, the internet has given 7-8 billion something like a global awareness, hard to say how the will ultimately change consciousness.
Of course - don't blame you, everything has been hijacked. Including all the
'spiritual' stuff.
I was pulled in and misdirected and all the rest of it. A lot of nonsense. And of course, some truths too.
I wrote about it briefly during Covid and how a new 'spiritual' group behaved.
https://devanneykathleen.substack.com/p/how-are-you-doing
It's hard to express without words and our words too were turned into tools of control. What do you do? You go deeper. It's the only move.
There is something under all that, beneath words, a deeper vein, unseen yet still fully present that exists.
I can trust that - in a step-by-step sort of way. Accessed in quiet, mostly. I don't call it spiritual. I'm not sure what that means anymore, or at least not sure it's meaningful on its own since it's all wrapped up in the physical and emotional and mental...
I think the striving thing - underlying assumption being we're not enough - is all about taking us out of ourselves, chasing ideas and images of something better.
It must be that we arrived equip, part of Nature and the natural world, with everything we needed. We're so far from that now, but it must be the case or we wouldn't be here.
Whatever is happening its always happening in the present, in a body. So much of life has been about taking us out of that orientation.
Tomorrow quite literally never comes.
Apologies if I rambled there. Best.
https://clifhigh.substack.com/p/new-cult-on-the-block?triedRedirect=true
No apologies necessary. Demi over at Starfire Codes sent me a similar link. I will link it.
Originally, Latin 'paganus' meant simply someone living outside the city limits and not well-versed in then-Current Thing, which in ~4...5th century happened to be Nicene Christianity. (see also: Greek 'idiōtēs' which at some points has been used in a similar manner, although usually not implying rural residence)
Today, «the parties are switched», and most of us dissidents are 'pagans' and 'idiots' for the urban connoisseurs of now-Current Thing, and that includes most Christians, too.
Good point. And welcome here Rat, I’m a fan.
I call myself 'pagan' as short hand. I really am more of a Western Ceremonialist or Western Occultist. Not gonna lie, I appreciate the Dion Fortune/Western traditional ties to Christianity and Christ, but it always makes me feel a little squidgy and I feel awkward using those symbols. Perhaps too long marinating in my 10-year-old BFF's Baptist Sunday School back in 1970 (as one comedian once said, you go in 9 o'clock on Sunday and come out on Tuesday) turned me off from the scene. This doesn't preclude working with Christians, but I would hope that at some point they would leave me alone vis a vis conversion. I'm not interested. Besides (as I've surely said before) a God that knows when a sparrow falls no doubt knows my heart and I suspect he/she/or it understands why I find the totemization of Jesus (and his death on the cross, which more seem to focus on than his words, works or even his resurrection) distasteful. -Also, given the history of Christianity, once it gets rid of pagan unbelievers, its own sects tend to turn on each other in the bid to be the 'correct' form. They should be happy we're here to give them some cohesiveness, LOL.
I think the closest the 'pagan' community has ever come to any kind of modern agreement is in movements like Theosophy which have informed the basis of many occult and pagan paths since the 1800's including the New Age movement (which I find as soft and flabby as the christianity you describe above). I think there is room for a more serious or 'muscular' paganism, but it is going to have to find it's own voice and venues apart from the fluffy bunny day-trippers, dilettantes and the left that has basically destroyed meeting places like Pantheacon by removing men's/women's spaces and allowing what one critic calls 'THE MESSAGE' to water down and obliterate traditional practices and beliefs. (on edit: I would also add that any serious paganism should avoid some of the fascistic tendancies of Evola, et al).
In short, I promise I won't burn churches if they promise not to burn me. Can't we all just get along? We really need to stand against the death of our country and constitution, you know, the one that offers freedom of conscience? Surely that should unite us?
I'm no particular fan of Evola, though I have not read much of his stuff. I would like to see a more organized and muscular paganism, but one that coexists peacefully with Christianity, as we together work to restore the promise of America. Otherwise most of the paganism I have encountered was a refuge for the kind of people who got mocked and beat up in high school by nominal "Christians", who still harbor a grudge.
Check out Imperium Press. They have repeatedly explained real folkish religion (paganism), and it's not Evola. People have been committed to the Germanic faith for decades at this point, including second-generation believers.
Excellent! Thanks for the link and welcome here.
I know I always prefer to avoid conflict, and attempt to write my articles in such a way so as they're applicable to all faiths. They're obviously written by a Catholic, I don't hide that, but I try to make it so that any faith - Pagan, Protestant, Orthodox, etc - could also apply the same lessons into building a Polity.
Because, as you say, we're all in this war. We should acknowledge that. I know I don't go out looking for fights on here. I have some people that come to me, asking for it, and then yes I go at it. Should I avoid it? Maybe - hard to say. Usually it's inter-denominational Christian stuff though.
Anyways, thanks for the shout out. I greatly appreciate it, and always enjoy all feed back.
You are doing great work and I have appreciated your contribution to the East Meets West podcast. I’m not confrontational by nature either, though I brook no bs coming at me, or at friends. We need more friends these days.
Well thank you, I’m glad that you enjoy it.
In reality, I’m actually very confrontational. It’s by habit and will power that I aim at not being so. Trust me, those that know me in person would say my moniker is very apt.
As the people of the West reject Christianity in great quatity they become sexually confused, as per Paul's letter.
The authorities are working on Beastly financial technology.
There are frantic efforts at world government. Meanwhile a Dragon rises in the East.
We have the technology for raining down fire and brimstone, as well as creating great plagues.
All that's missing is a Temple to desecrate, and the asteroid Wormwood.
But people are working on those, as well...
The temple desecrated is the earth and the human body. They revel in desecrating both.
But the New Testament prophecies refer to the one Temple in Jerusalem. Either these prophecies are wrong, or the End Times won't complete until the Temple is rebuilt.
Breeding of perfect red bulls has been done. I believe Netanyahu is bent on retaking the territory needed to rebuild the Temple. And if not Netanyahu, the politics of the area will elect someone else who will. The Hasidic vote is rather large.
If you want real magic, reread Revelations. If this causes too much confusion, read Daniel, Corinthians, Thessalonians, and the Synoptic Gospels for background. (And perhaps Ezekiel.) Expect some divergences from what you were taught in Sunday School.
Well, they have the whole Gaza to do it now. It can look out over the Mediterranean.
Excellent essay! Thank you, this Christian is with you.
It’s online drama and pure disruption.
Let the pagans manifest in reality and there’s something to talk about.
Folks, you’re arguing with paid online agent provocateurs.
For some reason Substack is blocking me on my own site from liking your comment.
Huh should work now I think i was subscribed already
Hit follow I thought
And unintentionally muted sorry lol
It’s ah er a great app really 🤣
Hmm
The AFA has hofs, does food drives, and has families. You can find them here runestone.org
Please tell me where I can find based churches, please.
Islam
islam is a foreign religion largely practiced by actual racial enemies. don't be retarded
You asked I answered. Islam earned my respect. It fights.
In truth every religion but Christianity fights now. The only one turning the other cheek is Christianity and it is and can go extinct. Worse than useless.
A trap, a civilizational shredder.
BTW Celt “Aodhan” and Teuton don’t mix, Ayran Brotherhood was founded by a Jew, and this is all 💩.
You can have the Shamrock ☘️ or the Swastika, not both.
Of course the Swastika is a Hindi good luck charm.
💩
Retarded: It’s nice to build out a community, but without defending it you’re simply creating a lucrative pillage target, since you bring up retarded.
The primary duty of men isn’t to hold fucking bake sales, it’s to fight, Mind you bake sales are at least some organization.
Now I don’t think you’re real, if you are you’re real dumb.
If you really want a based organization- and I am hostile to any passive male religion or organization- however if you want to be based community, consider the southern baptists, who are so community based they are vital in providing a reliable pool of trained rescue personnel to any American Red Cross disaster relief and recovery effort, and the American Red Cross is considered the core doers organization by FEMA (FEMA is an ATM 🏧).
That’s based I suppose.
Lmao what a hilarious comment
I’m not. Now based for me is war, rest of you are 💨 gas.
That’s it.
based for me is ethno-centric.
Read Imperium Press. Your arguments are not covering actual folkish paganism, but instead "vitalism"
It’s pretty simple: Good Sir William Hunter Duncan…
Send the Right Wing Bros this video every time they decide to engage in bickering & infighting with one another 😉
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BHZDu2Y44g
Indeed, Ahnaf, while I did not add Islam to my list of enemies, Christian and Pagan Americans had better get clear, Islam is not a pretender.
dude, wtf.
You need to become more ethno-centric fast.
This is not called Born on the Fouth of July for nothing. I also live in lily white central Minnesota, and defend white people at every opportunity. Islam will not rule here.
Forgive me, brother. I see a muslim name and the urge to bog becomes unbearable.
Ahnaf and I have sparred aplenty, as I consider Islam to be a religion bent on total global domination.. But he is unerringly respectful, and I respect him in turn.
Our father who are in heaven..
Stay there!
While we continue to live down here in this beautiful world with its colors, flowers, music and beautiful people!
Well, God is by Def everywhere;) Methinks too the Creator would rather we enjoy this extraordinary creation rather than spend our time trying to control others and kill each other off.
But...but...but...I like corn!
Me too. I am going to can 24 pints of sweet corn this week. But I don't eat a lot of corn fed beef, high fructose corn syrup assorted hundreds of corn derivatives, or corn chips like the bag is bottomless, lol.
Same here. I try to stay away from the bad stuff. Will keep eating the corn tho. Even if it makes me squishy. Cracked me up
We eat sweet corn here every day for about six weeks. So good.
I miss the midwest for that. Driving around with the scent of corn everywhere. My friends and I would buy dozens of ears, take them home, boil them up and have what amounted to hot buttered corn baccanals that would go on all nite until we couldn't eat anymore. Good times.
As a firm Christian myself, my two thoughts regarding neo-pagans are:
1. The ones I encounter online seem little different to me than Reddit atheists. They mostly talk about why Christianity is bad, or how they can show you Christianity is wrong. I don't know if I've ever seen them write or say anything about their own beliefs, or rituals, or practices, or anything else without it being related back to Christianity somehow. If you're just a pagan because you don't like Christianity, that's a shitty motivation and will lead you nowhere.
2. I have *never* encountered a pagan in real life. There is a real physical building made out of brick and wood and whatever else, called a church, where I can go every week and fellowship with real people. It provides a holistic framework which I am comfortable entrusting my entire life to. Every single aspect of me fits within that place and the beliefs it represents. I feel completely comfortable with the idea of raising my children there.
Neither pagans nor "vitalists" have anything like this. What would it mean to raise children as "vitalists?" Would I read Nietzsche to them at night instead of the Bible? I have no idea how that would even work. The enterprise sounds absurd to me, likely because the "vitalists" I've encountered seem very uninterested in things like family, children, or reproduction. I'd have much the same question for pagans. Are you going to raise your toddler telling him stories of Thor and Odin, expecting that he will grow up with genuine belief in these deities? How will you expect him to cope when he quickly comes to learn that literally everyone else in society considers such beliefs to be bizarre LARPs, at best?