A fight I knew I couldn't win, I wasn't trying to win and got banned not surprisingly, but I learned something about my misgivings for the Socio-Sexual Hierarchy, Sigma Game
I ran into this in the Vox Populi days. Vox is never wrong and anyone who disagrees is a gamma. Now people literally pay at least $10/month to comment (Social Galactic) on his personal website. Imagine what a personal echo chamber does to a man's ego.
So bizarre. Such a strange worldview. Thanks for at least trying to interject some logic into their thought process. The being moral by being immoral really is odd. Just a hunch, but methinks that most of these self-professed “sigmas” aren’t exactly getting laid as much as they’d like us to think.
The SSH is a concept that seems to have some utility but I agree that Vox and his commenters use the idea of being a sigma as a way to excuse being an asshole.
I don't like the SSH system. It is too simple, and there is a bit of microevolutionary thought that adds to the problem of oversimplification.
Maybe a future version of SSH is more interesting as a framework for development of characters. I think as it is today it doesn't have enough play between the categories. How is the character going to tell the writer where he is going if the famework does not tell enough about how he is going to react to other characters? I think Vox Day probably reserves many details of his system for himself, and he may be secretly hoping that the readers discover those for themselves by reading his books. If so, he expects too much from people.
I have not read Vox's article (or any of Vox's articles), but I did read the comment thread you posted. The idea that 'typical male patterns of behavior' have nothing to do with morality and that someone has 'zero control over whether you [they] are a Sigma or not' are, gosh, I don't even know the right word. "Insane" doesn't seem strong enough. I know there are some men who are not guided by morality, but to make the blanket statement that all male behavior has nothing to do with morality does not align with my life experiences. And the idea that someone has zero control if they are a Sigma or anything else just seems like a way of abdicating responsibility for your actions.
Good for you for being willing to read differing viewpoints. People like that make me shudder and I just avoid them. ;-)
I had never heard of this Vox Day person so I had to read some of the links embedded and...it's very cultish. They've got their own hierarchy of language and this Vox person seems quite full of himself. Is this one of those Andrew Tate how to land a hot woman expose sites? None of it is in depth or insightful. I'll stick to astrology thanks...
LOL I suppose I should write more astrology! I'm presuming if the title of your blog is accurate then you are a sensitive cancer, which explains a lot about why this sigma thing would rub you the wrong way: there's a strong appeal to tradition and moral stances. For me I'm turned off by Vox's strong generalizations about women (he strikes me as a Sagitarrius, though I don't know). The pseudo pop psychology is a bit too masculine for my taste. Keep in mind my major in college was psychology-human sexual relations, though I moved over to marriage and the family in sociology for graduate school. These binaries strike me as way too simplistic
If we use the Sun house system Sagittarius is the sign of the 4th house for all Virgos.
Which is funny because the 4th House is in analogy with Cancer, and the Moon, and the IC: the Mother, Womanhood, family, the household, etc.
You are detecting those "strong generalizations about women" because of the skepticism of Sagittarius.
For me, the fun thing about Virgo is third house of Scorpio and the ninth house of Taurus. This is a tragedy for an author and an intellectual: the Virgo writer aspires to be an optimist but has to accept being a mere critic.
I don't know why those who would look askance at people labelling themselves with genderqueer titles or other social groupings would put so much effort into trying to label themselves in a similar fashion. Personally, I just see the same seething and in/out group politics motivating all of it, a need to label all human personality and interaction so as to define oneself as 'other to' in comparison (generally as 'superior to', but that's unspoken).
Vox is interesting, I’ll continue to read his blog, but this sexual hierarchy theory of his is tendentious.. There’s obviously something to it in broad outline, but there seems to be something off with the gamma and sigma categories and analyses. Watching this Sigma blog unfold, I’m struck by the sense that Vox himself often exhibits behavior redolent of what he calls gamma-hood.. He’s an awful smart boy, Vox, and he has an awfully high opinion of himself. He doesn’t brook much criticism or dissent before turning to insults and banning. It’s not a good look, really, and smacks of some psychological and spiritual disorder, of arrogance, insecurity and pride.. Gamma qualities, in other words.
2 hrs ago·edited 2 hrs agoLiked by William Hunter Duncan
Yep I had watched his "dark stream" videos years ago on youtube, but I have changed and he hasn't and I got banned from his Substack in a couple of weeks for having my own opinions. Consider it a point of pride to be on his block list.
Fuck him. I’m just about to block him. Read one and a half of the posts of his contained in the link, and all I would have to add is one of those parties that’s mentioned ad nauseoum would make a nice spot for a few hand grenades to go off. Fukn hell. I’d set them off myself if I was stuck in a room with these bunch of fuck wits. And one tier .. two tier .. 3 tier.. boom Mts!
Mfs not mts. Ffs. I just posted a couple of comments on one of his posts. It’s was a short post, thank God. Where’s the nuance in these peoples thinking? I don’t get it it. It is a cult. Fuck!!!
He really is a pompous idiot. In his "dark stream" podcasts he would sit in a large hand carved wooden chair like a throne. Narcissist doesn't even being to cover his delusions of grandeur.
It's a good rough guide, and helps if you're trying to improve your standing, but it's hardly solid sociology (as if sociology could ever be a hard science, heheh).
Vox is almost always right, and takes great pains to be so. I've only ever seen one typo in reading him for over a decade.
That said, being high IQ and intolerant of the less intelligent/informed can leave you with huge blind spots.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Samuel Clemens
It's because like any other NPC scripting, it is intrinsically contradictive. If you understand females, you won't respect them and certainly will not consider them a metric of objective value. But like all the other alphabet soup glowniggers, it exists as controlled opposition keeping men consooming.
A real human would consider that the only insult either of them could offer you is their approval.
I find the SSH to be somewhat useful but highly lacking. Hate to bring Venn Diagrams into the discussion but mostly people are 4-5 overlapping ovals of behavior. I'd say I'm a Delta with some Bravo overlap and some Gamma tendencies (I fall into the "actually" trap occasionally). The whole thing is useful for self-examination and introspection but useless when someone in a parasocial situation is diagnosing you as the diagnosis is always GAMMA.
Vox is doing a lot of good things with Arkhaven and Castalia House. I like his fantasy series. Things go off the rails with the public face he presents. Anything anti-Western is good and holy despite evidence to the contrary (none of his sources on Russia, for instance, live in Russia). Ask Strelkov how free speech is in Russia. Nary an article on Chinese Social Credit. I find his excusing, really an endorsement, of belt-notching and "gaming" women to be immoral. It's almost an embrace of everything toxic in masculinity.
When I first encountered the SSH I was curious about how much of the generic definition of the Sigma fit. But like you, there are shades of all designations. The more I read Vox though, the less I identified with the Sigma, which seemed mostly about contempt for women even as it is apparently OK to use them for their sexual "utility".
2 hrs ago·edited 2 hrs agoLiked by William Hunter Duncan
Don't waste your time worrying about Vox Day he is a self important closet queer. He loves that faggy light industrial synth dance music from the 80s and basically has a lisp. Once you see it, it's obvious, it's why he is so hung up on sex and sexual hierarchies IMO. Fucking their friends lovers is how gay men behave BTW. Perhaps he doesn't act on his gay core, he is married to a woman, but he certainly behaves likes a typical child of the 80s gay man.
I think the mistake you made is assuming the SSH has a moral component. It doesn't. Regardless of your SSH standing, you can either be a saint or a shitheel.
That said, Gamma designation probably makes it harder to be a saint, but IMO it doesn't preclude it. Alpha designation probably makes it equally hard, but from a domination angle (Darth Vader was the ultimate bravo, until he Alpha'd up and killed the emperor). Same applies to the other designations.
In my part of the world, adulterers get stoned and fornicators get flogged. And that’s assuming ‘the authorities’ get there before the husband, father, brother, etc does.
The SSH is amoral (not immoral) and descriptive. But the moment you make it normative, it’s a dead end. Society without morality simply devolves into barbarism and retribution without end.
They were keen to remind me about that amoral bit, while they entirely ignored the moral part, which I took to be most instructive and immoral. Which barbarism and retribution seems to be the place we are being dragged by the managerial state, which I don't care about any Alpha or Sigma who is more concerned about sex than that.
I too read some of the Vox Day posts, and after two or three, started getting that sticky feeling of, "this is a psy-op". This was Andrew Tate meets Epstein, meets P. Diddy rolled up in pseudo-intellectual word salads.
It had the intrigue of "secrets to success", through the hushed world of sex and pecking orders.
And it's all bullshit. Good for you. I stopped reading it months ago.
I remember how VD got real mad, spiteful and feeling threatened (in his effortfully crafted apparent relevance) when, years ago, J.B. Peterson got popular with his own, psychology-infused takes in Christian messages.
Since then I filed him under "petty little man, likely narcissist".
It still seems now I'm not missing out by not regarding him as relevant.
Anyway, you can rebuke it with far fewer words than that.
>Females are retarded children with no agency
>Also, your value as a man is determined solely by their ever shifting and dysgenic judgment
That completely shuts down all the NPC script manipulation female arguments posed by the PUA grifters as a hard counter. Because the fact of the matter is it's all copium. If a female wants you, she will take your dick inside you inside of two minutes and will be so clumsy and blunt in her advances that even the most oblivious will know what she wants.
If you gotta carry on like a dancing monkey, you aren't the greek alphabet soup nigger you think you are.
Really, I see all this dancing monkey shit in the same way I see the NAFO troons. By being so loud and proud about all the abject bullshit involved, no one who is even remotely human can take females seriously at all, or any other form of soycial status for that matter. Sure, those who get involved with females might not be surprise drone striked out of nowhere, but over time they will learn those jewkrainians got off easy by only being wounded physically.
>Now, I heavily detest using their language, as it’s like using troon speak when discussing aspects of male or female specific anatomy, or using jew speak like calling a baby a “natal unit” while insisting that anyone who doesn’t support breeding more slaves for the jews is a jew, and other such trite and tiresome NPC dialogue that I have hard countered over nine thousand times already. All of those who use terms derived from dysfunctional enslaved wolf packs should adopt a different aspect of Greek culture - being tossed from cliffs like the degenerates they are, to praise that Gravity!
If you are not a Yes Man, you are a gamma. It's that simple. Vox is building a cult.
By the way, see Robert Anton Wilson's "Prometheus Rising" for a model of human behavior which bears great resemblance to the SSH.
Reading his comment section you would think that being a sigma meant being a SSH sycophant.
I ran into this in the Vox Populi days. Vox is never wrong and anyone who disagrees is a gamma. Now people literally pay at least $10/month to comment (Social Galactic) on his personal website. Imagine what a personal echo chamber does to a man's ego.
I wonder if he bans people from his paid site as fast as he does on his other comment sections.
I care so much I did not even know he had another site.
Peak sigma...
That is a fascinating question. I'm sure one is given time to adopt the proper opinions, perhaps a few months.
And the ability to overlook math errors on the part of the Man with the really high IQ.
So bizarre. Such a strange worldview. Thanks for at least trying to interject some logic into their thought process. The being moral by being immoral really is odd. Just a hunch, but methinks that most of these self-professed “sigmas” aren’t exactly getting laid as much as they’d like us to think.
That kind of seems what it is about. How to get laid whenever you want, no consequences.
Yep, which as I stated above is the gay male attitude.
I thought you stood up to the roar and din with great aplomb.
It just went over their heady heads, haha
The SSH is a concept that seems to have some utility but I agree that Vox and his commenters use the idea of being a sigma as a way to excuse being an asshole.
I don't like the SSH system. It is too simple, and there is a bit of microevolutionary thought that adds to the problem of oversimplification.
Maybe a future version of SSH is more interesting as a framework for development of characters. I think as it is today it doesn't have enough play between the categories. How is the character going to tell the writer where he is going if the famework does not tell enough about how he is going to react to other characters? I think Vox Day probably reserves many details of his system for himself, and he may be secretly hoping that the readers discover those for themselves by reading his books. If so, he expects too much from people.
I have not read Vox's article (or any of Vox's articles), but I did read the comment thread you posted. The idea that 'typical male patterns of behavior' have nothing to do with morality and that someone has 'zero control over whether you [they] are a Sigma or not' are, gosh, I don't even know the right word. "Insane" doesn't seem strong enough. I know there are some men who are not guided by morality, but to make the blanket statement that all male behavior has nothing to do with morality does not align with my life experiences. And the idea that someone has zero control if they are a Sigma or anything else just seems like a way of abdicating responsibility for your actions.
Good for you for being willing to read differing viewpoints. People like that make me shudder and I just avoid them. ;-)
I had never heard of this Vox Day person so I had to read some of the links embedded and...it's very cultish. They've got their own hierarchy of language and this Vox person seems quite full of himself. Is this one of those Andrew Tate how to land a hot woman expose sites? None of it is in depth or insightful. I'll stick to astrology thanks...
He’s quite a big deal ;) It is a little like Andrew Tate without the kickboxing. You should write more about astrology, yes?
LOL I suppose I should write more astrology! I'm presuming if the title of your blog is accurate then you are a sensitive cancer, which explains a lot about why this sigma thing would rub you the wrong way: there's a strong appeal to tradition and moral stances. For me I'm turned off by Vox's strong generalizations about women (he strikes me as a Sagitarrius, though I don't know). The pseudo pop psychology is a bit too masculine for my taste. Keep in mind my major in college was psychology-human sexual relations, though I moved over to marriage and the family in sociology for graduate school. These binaries strike me as way too simplistic
Vox said once he is a Virgo.
If we use the Sun house system Sagittarius is the sign of the 4th house for all Virgos.
Which is funny because the 4th House is in analogy with Cancer, and the Moon, and the IC: the Mother, Womanhood, family, the household, etc.
You are detecting those "strong generalizations about women" because of the skepticism of Sagittarius.
For me, the fun thing about Virgo is third house of Scorpio and the ninth house of Taurus. This is a tragedy for an author and an intellectual: the Virgo writer aspires to be an optimist but has to accept being a mere critic.
He goes back way further in alt-right sphere than Andrew Tate, and is smarter but at the end of the day is a liar and grifter like Tate.
I don't know why those who would look askance at people labelling themselves with genderqueer titles or other social groupings would put so much effort into trying to label themselves in a similar fashion. Personally, I just see the same seething and in/out group politics motivating all of it, a need to label all human personality and interaction so as to define oneself as 'other to' in comparison (generally as 'superior to', but that's unspoken).
"Superior to" I think is the key takeaway. It is a very common human tendency, to assume me and my in-group have an inside track on God's grace.
Vox is interesting, I’ll continue to read his blog, but this sexual hierarchy theory of his is tendentious.. There’s obviously something to it in broad outline, but there seems to be something off with the gamma and sigma categories and analyses. Watching this Sigma blog unfold, I’m struck by the sense that Vox himself often exhibits behavior redolent of what he calls gamma-hood.. He’s an awful smart boy, Vox, and he has an awfully high opinion of himself. He doesn’t brook much criticism or dissent before turning to insults and banning. It’s not a good look, really, and smacks of some psychological and spiritual disorder, of arrogance, insecurity and pride.. Gamma qualities, in other words.
I saw him once in a podcast video. He must be a sigma, I thought, to attract all those beautiful women he talks about.
Talks about, as I have said, I think he is a fag.
😂
Yep I had watched his "dark stream" videos years ago on youtube, but I have changed and he hasn't and I got banned from his Substack in a couple of weeks for having my own opinions. Consider it a point of pride to be on his block list.
Fuck him. I’m just about to block him. Read one and a half of the posts of his contained in the link, and all I would have to add is one of those parties that’s mentioned ad nauseoum would make a nice spot for a few hand grenades to go off. Fukn hell. I’d set them off myself if I was stuck in a room with these bunch of fuck wits. And one tier .. two tier .. 3 tier.. boom Mts!
Mfs not mts. Ffs. I just posted a couple of comments on one of his posts. It’s was a short post, thank God. Where’s the nuance in these peoples thinking? I don’t get it it. It is a cult. Fuck!!!
He really is a pompous idiot. In his "dark stream" podcasts he would sit in a large hand carved wooden chair like a throne. Narcissist doesn't even being to cover his delusions of grandeur.
It's a good rough guide, and helps if you're trying to improve your standing, but it's hardly solid sociology (as if sociology could ever be a hard science, heheh).
Vox is almost always right, and takes great pains to be so. I've only ever seen one typo in reading him for over a decade.
That said, being high IQ and intolerant of the less intelligent/informed can leave you with huge blind spots.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Samuel Clemens
It's because like any other NPC scripting, it is intrinsically contradictive. If you understand females, you won't respect them and certainly will not consider them a metric of objective value. But like all the other alphabet soup glowniggers, it exists as controlled opposition keeping men consooming.
A real human would consider that the only insult either of them could offer you is their approval.
I find the SSH to be somewhat useful but highly lacking. Hate to bring Venn Diagrams into the discussion but mostly people are 4-5 overlapping ovals of behavior. I'd say I'm a Delta with some Bravo overlap and some Gamma tendencies (I fall into the "actually" trap occasionally). The whole thing is useful for self-examination and introspection but useless when someone in a parasocial situation is diagnosing you as the diagnosis is always GAMMA.
Vox is doing a lot of good things with Arkhaven and Castalia House. I like his fantasy series. Things go off the rails with the public face he presents. Anything anti-Western is good and holy despite evidence to the contrary (none of his sources on Russia, for instance, live in Russia). Ask Strelkov how free speech is in Russia. Nary an article on Chinese Social Credit. I find his excusing, really an endorsement, of belt-notching and "gaming" women to be immoral. It's almost an embrace of everything toxic in masculinity.
When I first encountered the SSH I was curious about how much of the generic definition of the Sigma fit. But like you, there are shades of all designations. The more I read Vox though, the less I identified with the Sigma, which seemed mostly about contempt for women even as it is apparently OK to use them for their sexual "utility".
Don't waste your time worrying about Vox Day he is a self important closet queer. He loves that faggy light industrial synth dance music from the 80s and basically has a lisp. Once you see it, it's obvious, it's why he is so hung up on sex and sexual hierarchies IMO. Fucking their friends lovers is how gay men behave BTW. Perhaps he doesn't act on his gay core, he is married to a woman, but he certainly behaves likes a typical child of the 80s gay man.
He and Richard Spencer remind me of this skit from Saturday Night live.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLlbWiTo_wQ
I think the mistake you made is assuming the SSH has a moral component. It doesn't. Regardless of your SSH standing, you can either be a saint or a shitheel.
That said, Gamma designation probably makes it harder to be a saint, but IMO it doesn't preclude it. Alpha designation probably makes it equally hard, but from a domination angle (Darth Vader was the ultimate bravo, until he Alpha'd up and killed the emperor). Same applies to the other designations.
It is not that I mistook the SSH for a moral component, it is that I expected the adherents to have some.
here's_where_you're_wrong_kiddo.jpg
In my part of the world, adulterers get stoned and fornicators get flogged. And that’s assuming ‘the authorities’ get there before the husband, father, brother, etc does.
The SSH is amoral (not immoral) and descriptive. But the moment you make it normative, it’s a dead end. Society without morality simply devolves into barbarism and retribution without end.
They were keen to remind me about that amoral bit, while they entirely ignored the moral part, which I took to be most instructive and immoral. Which barbarism and retribution seems to be the place we are being dragged by the managerial state, which I don't care about any Alpha or Sigma who is more concerned about sex than that.
I too read some of the Vox Day posts, and after two or three, started getting that sticky feeling of, "this is a psy-op". This was Andrew Tate meets Epstein, meets P. Diddy rolled up in pseudo-intellectual word salads.
It had the intrigue of "secrets to success", through the hushed world of sex and pecking orders.
And it's all bullshit. Good for you. I stopped reading it months ago.
I remember how VD got real mad, spiteful and feeling threatened (in his effortfully crafted apparent relevance) when, years ago, J.B. Peterson got popular with his own, psychology-infused takes in Christian messages.
Since then I filed him under "petty little man, likely narcissist".
It still seems now I'm not missing out by not regarding him as relevant.
Cuckolding ones friends is anti-white behavior.
>Christcuck obsessed with cuck porn
Many such cases!
Anyway, you can rebuke it with far fewer words than that.
>Females are retarded children with no agency
>Also, your value as a man is determined solely by their ever shifting and dysgenic judgment
That completely shuts down all the NPC script manipulation female arguments posed by the PUA grifters as a hard counter. Because the fact of the matter is it's all copium. If a female wants you, she will take your dick inside you inside of two minutes and will be so clumsy and blunt in her advances that even the most oblivious will know what she wants.
If you gotta carry on like a dancing monkey, you aren't the greek alphabet soup nigger you think you are.
Somehow I don't think you are Japenese with such language. I try to be kinder, gentler, generally.
Kindness = weakness with females, including the feminized males that engage in such simpanzee behavior.
Indeed, it is not kind and gentle if I am trying to get laid
Really, I see all this dancing monkey shit in the same way I see the NAFO troons. By being so loud and proud about all the abject bullshit involved, no one who is even remotely human can take females seriously at all, or any other form of soycial status for that matter. Sure, those who get involved with females might not be surprise drone striked out of nowhere, but over time they will learn those jewkrainians got off easy by only being wounded physically.
Geez man, I appreciate you but lay off the sauce, lol
What does that even mean?
>Now, I heavily detest using their language, as it’s like using troon speak when discussing aspects of male or female specific anatomy, or using jew speak like calling a baby a “natal unit” while insisting that anyone who doesn’t support breeding more slaves for the jews is a jew, and other such trite and tiresome NPC dialogue that I have hard countered over nine thousand times already. All of those who use terms derived from dysfunctional enslaved wolf packs should adopt a different aspect of Greek culture - being tossed from cliffs like the degenerates they are, to praise that Gravity!
https://shinichihaku.substack.com/p/you-are-not-a-clown-you-are-the-entire