A fight I knew I couldn't win, I wasn't trying to win and got banned not surprisingly, but I learned something about my misgivings for the Socio-Sexual Hierarchy, Sigma Game
Vox Day responded with a post. I will merely point out that he did not comment on my post, nor can I comment on his site, which here in Minnesota we call passive aggressive.
I ran into this in the Vox Populi days. Vox is never wrong and anyone who disagrees is a gamma. Now people literally pay at least $10/month to comment (Social Galactic) on his personal website. Imagine what a personal echo chamber does to a man's ego.
Vox is interesting, I’ll continue to read his blog, but this sexual hierarchy theory of his is tendentious.. There’s obviously something to it in broad outline, but there seems to be something off with the gamma and sigma categories and analyses. Watching this Sigma blog unfold, I’m struck by the sense that Vox himself often exhibits behavior redolent of what he calls gamma-hood.. He’s an awful smart boy, Vox, and he has an awfully high opinion of himself. He doesn’t brook much criticism or dissent before turning to insults and banning. It’s not a good look, really, and smacks of some psychological and spiritual disorder, of arrogance, insecurity and pride.. Gamma qualities, in other words.
It's a good rough guide, and helps if you're trying to improve your standing, but it's hardly solid sociology (as if sociology could ever be a hard science, heheh).
Vox is almost always right, and takes great pains to be so. I've only ever seen one typo in reading him for over a decade.
That said, being high IQ and intolerant of the less intelligent/informed can leave you with huge blind spots.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Samuel Clemens
He makes errors in mathematical logic that my high school math teacher could have caught. His first argument against free trade is pure cargo cult. Apparently he cannot tell the difference between a dependent and independent variable.
He also thinks Miles Mathis is a scientist.
But he pens great vampire comics, and I suspect he is the Fenris Wulf, who penned "Loki's Child" -- which is a brilliant comedy in league with Near Stephenson's works.
I'll take you at your word on the math, but there's a better (simpler) argument against free trade: The theory assumes at all times non-hostile participants. That alone is enough to make Autarky the only sane goal.
I don't know if he thinks that about Mathis, I know he believes him a good painter (IMO self-evident, he's accomplished) and that he's a Gamma (reasonably evident). I myself think Mathis should stick to painting (although his LOTR fan-fiction was entertaining enough I finished it).
The US is big enough to do Autarky. For small countries, there would be serious lifestyle downgrades.
With that written, there are plenty of good reasons for having a bias toward manufacturing at home. The Tree of Woe has an excellent list of arguments against free trade. https://treeofwoe.substack.com/p/against-free-trade
It isn't necessary to refute Ricardo. It suffices to note that our current situation is different from Ricardo's premises. We have a welfare state and high income/labor taxes. Low tariffs under our current conditions constitute Subsidized Outsourcing, not Free Trade.
Regarding the math, GDP = Investment + Consumption + Government Spending + Exports - Imports.
Since we run perpetual trade deficits, eliminating trade would boost our GDP bigly -- if you look at the above formula through the mind of a college freshman. But that's what Vox did for this first argument against trade on his Darkstream.
Consumption is a function of imports, as anyone can tell with a quick trip to Walmart. GDP would not immediately jump up by the amount of our trade deficit were we to end foreign trade. It probably would rise up some as we frantically reopen old factories and bring engineers out of retirement to teach the younger generations how to operate them. But this would take time, and for consumer goods the near term inflation would be huge.
I'm just old enough to remember what it was like when we made our own stuff.
In the 1970s it paid to repair things because repairman labor prices were comparable to factory labor prices. It also still paid to patch clothing or even make clothing from scratch. High end department stores still sold dress patterns and cloth by the yard in the 1970s. Heathkit was a thriving business.
---
OK we all make boo boos. Even moi. But Vox maintains his boo boos because he cannot stand even friendly constructive criticism. And that's sad.
Sep 30·edited Sep 30Liked by William Hunter Duncan
Yes and that was a better world, we had better quality stuff and it was less wasteful, and actually in the long term less expensive even. Sure prices for consumer goods were higher, but you could keep stuff running for decades. Now even "high end" Chinese import items like iphones literally can't be fixed and are landfill fodder in less than 10 years, and sometimes less than 5 years. The higher quality domestic stuff of the 70s had less tangible benefits too, like stereos that reproduced the full frequency spectrum, and regular cars that worked for whole families made by Union labor who received a living wage, so mom could stay home and take good care of the kids, and working class families could have a home they owned and a vacation cottage, and put their kids through college. Not everything can always be quantified.
Just because line go up on the GDP chart that measures how the parasitic on labor ((((investor class))), does, does not mean our quality of life for ordinary people has improved.
"The theory assumes at all times non-hostile participants." dismantles free trade as a bono. Furthermore, it also shows the folly of libertarianism when malicious actors are considered. (hello Chase Oliver!). There are hostile participants, and they are the fly in the ointment with liberty-oriented philosophies. I wish it weren't so, but wishes aren't real.
Sep 29·edited Sep 29Liked by William Hunter Duncan
Yep I had watched his "dark stream" videos years ago on youtube, but I have changed and he hasn't and I got banned from his Substack in a couple of weeks for having my own opinions. Consider it a point of pride to be on his block list.
Fuck him. I’m just about to block him. Read one and a half of the posts of his contained in the link, and all I would have to add is one of those parties that’s mentioned ad nauseoum would make a nice spot for a few hand grenades to go off. Fukn hell. I’d set them off myself if I was stuck in a room with these bunch of fuck wits. And one tier .. two tier .. 3 tier.. boom Mts!
He really is a pompous idiot. In his "dark stream" podcasts he would sit in a large hand carved wooden chair like a throne. Narcissist doesn't even being to cover his delusions of grandeur.
Mfs not mts. Ffs. I just posted a couple of comments on one of his posts. It’s was a short post, thank God. Where’s the nuance in these peoples thinking? I don’t get it it. It is a cult. Fuck!!!
It's because like any other NPC scripting, it is intrinsically contradictive. If you understand females, you won't respect them and certainly will not consider them a metric of objective value. But like all the other alphabet soup glowniggers, it exists as controlled opposition keeping men consooming.
A real human would consider that the only insult either of them could offer you is their approval.
That was my thinking too, I figured he just invented the "Sigma" rank to cover-up being a high-achieving Gamma. But the other day he posted a picture of himself in his lifting days and bro was swole af, so I guess I'm wrong again.
The SSH is a concept that seems to have some utility but I agree that Vox and his commenters use the idea of being a sigma as a way to excuse being an asshole.
I don't like the SSH system. It is too simple, and there is a bit of microevolutionary thought that adds to the problem of oversimplification.
Maybe a future version of SSH is more interesting as a framework for development of characters. I think as it is today it doesn't have enough play between the categories. How is the character going to tell the writer where he is going if the famework does not tell enough about how he is going to react to other characters? I think Vox Day probably reserves many details of his system for himself, and he may be secretly hoping that the readers discover those for themselves by reading his books. If so, he expects too much from people.
I have not read Vox's article (or any of Vox's articles), but I did read the comment thread you posted. The idea that 'typical male patterns of behavior' have nothing to do with morality and that someone has 'zero control over whether you [they] are a Sigma or not' are, gosh, I don't even know the right word. "Insane" doesn't seem strong enough. I know there are some men who are not guided by morality, but to make the blanket statement that all male behavior has nothing to do with morality does not align with my life experiences. And the idea that someone has zero control if they are a Sigma or anything else just seems like a way of abdicating responsibility for your actions.
Good for you for being willing to read differing viewpoints. People like that make me shudder and I just avoid them. ;-)
So bizarre. Such a strange worldview. Thanks for at least trying to interject some logic into their thought process. The being moral by being immoral really is odd. Just a hunch, but methinks that most of these self-professed “sigmas” aren’t exactly getting laid as much as they’d like us to think.
In my part of the world, adulterers get stoned and fornicators get flogged. And that’s assuming ‘the authorities’ get there before the husband, father, brother, etc does.
The SSH is amoral (not immoral) and descriptive. But the moment you make it normative, it’s a dead end. Society without morality simply devolves into barbarism and retribution without end.
They were keen to remind me about that amoral bit, while they entirely ignored the moral part, which I took to be most instructive and immoral. Which barbarism and retribution seems to be the place we are being dragged by the managerial state, which I don't care about any Alpha or Sigma who is more concerned about sex than that.
Sep 30·edited Sep 30Liked by William Hunter Duncan
As a hermit I would put a twist on that. For sure a conspicuous hermit with lots of hot women and food, is going to be decimated by marauders when our empire collapses. The humble hidden hermit, with wisdom but no material thing worth stealing will be passed by. Marauders are uncultured barbarians and have no interest in books, or other things quasi-monks own.
"Presumably, though it is not stated, he seeks out men to befriend, in order to fuck their female partner. This is not couched in any discussion, not the least concern, by Vox Day, he seemed to see that as a mere explication of the Sigma character"
He did mention it was an amoral analysis. Would it be correct to say that your disagreement is that he didn't spend any time condemning the specific behavior? I imagine it would be the same if he posted a man who formed a 100 man gang and raided a town and took control of it - pure alpha behavior whose thoughts and processes may be worth examining in the SSH lens although the specific behavior may have been immoral.
I had never heard of this Vox Day person so I had to read some of the links embedded and...it's very cultish. They've got their own hierarchy of language and this Vox person seems quite full of himself. Is this one of those Andrew Tate how to land a hot woman expose sites? None of it is in depth or insightful. I'll stick to astrology thanks...
LOL I suppose I should write more astrology! I'm presuming if the title of your blog is accurate then you are a sensitive cancer, which explains a lot about why this sigma thing would rub you the wrong way: there's a strong appeal to tradition and moral stances. For me I'm turned off by Vox's strong generalizations about women (he strikes me as a Sagitarrius, though I don't know). The pseudo pop psychology is a bit too masculine for my taste. Keep in mind my major in college was psychology-human sexual relations, though I moved over to marriage and the family in sociology for graduate school. These binaries strike me as way too simplistic
If we use the Sun house system Sagittarius is the sign of the 4th house for all Virgos.
Which is funny because the 4th House is in analogy with Cancer, and the Moon, and the IC: the Mother, Womanhood, family, the household, etc.
You are detecting those "strong generalizations about women" because of the skepticism of Sagittarius.
For me, the fun thing about Virgo is third house of Scorpio and the ninth house of Taurus. This is a tragedy for an author and an intellectual: the Virgo writer aspires to be an optimist but has to accept being a mere critic.
LOL!I am used to being wrong, though Virgo doesn't sound far off either. Hilariously my daughter was talking about it this morning with me: I mentioned the whole alpha sigma beta gamma classifications and Jasmine sighed and said "This is just astrology for men."
So then she did this thing she does sometimes, but this time asking me to write the story and explain it to her: "Okay Mom. 5/7 with 7/14."
"Gender classifications, if any?" I asked her.
"Uhm, male and female I guess. Classic love story."
"Names?
"Lily and Daniel."
"Okay I want Dan to be the Taurus here. Lily is the Cancer. So Dan looks down at his new intern from his executive role, his desire spilling out. Lily pushes her glasses nervously closer to her face, feeling his stare. Taurus Cancer is not really good or bad per day, but that's how I'd see it playing out. In numerology terms both of them would have an element of luck."
"Why?"
"Well 7-14 is 21, Blackjack. I like both 5 and 7, which add up to 12, an anagram of 21. A strange chance would bring them together in the story. If the gender roles were reversed luck would still play a part, but I'd see Dan the Cancer in this role as more of an outcast rebel. Lily the Taurus might have even been the one who screwed him over before, leading to the primary tension of never being able to trust and open up versus what is going on in this mysterious mind.."
If Taurus Daniel had Mars in Scorpio and Cancer Lilly had Moon in Capricorn, Dan could be sending her mysterious presents for years before she realized he was interested.
My serious musing to Jasmine earlier today was that I used to read smut romantic fiction and despite the fact that basically every in real life woman and most men I know have considered this at some point in serious romantic relationships, it is absolutely never mentioned in smut, except as a plot contrivance. Like in 50 Shades of Grey the last of those I read I'm pretty sure the heroine was Taurus while the hero was Gemini, but their birthday parties were just used to pull the plot forward and neither character seemed real consistent with their (never mentioned) sign....
I don't know why those who would look askance at people labelling themselves with genderqueer titles or other social groupings would put so much effort into trying to label themselves in a similar fashion. Personally, I just see the same seething and in/out group politics motivating all of it, a need to label all human personality and interaction so as to define oneself as 'other to' in comparison (generally as 'superior to', but that's unspoken).
I find the SSH to be somewhat useful but highly lacking. Hate to bring Venn Diagrams into the discussion but mostly people are 4-5 overlapping ovals of behavior. I'd say I'm a Delta with some Bravo overlap and some Gamma tendencies (I fall into the "actually" trap occasionally). The whole thing is useful for self-examination and introspection but useless when someone in a parasocial situation is diagnosing you as the diagnosis is always GAMMA.
Vox is doing a lot of good things with Arkhaven and Castalia House. I like his fantasy series. Things go off the rails with the public face he presents. Anything anti-Western is good and holy despite evidence to the contrary (none of his sources on Russia, for instance, live in Russia). Ask Strelkov how free speech is in Russia. Nary an article on Chinese Social Credit. I find his excusing, really an endorsement, of belt-notching and "gaming" women to be immoral. It's almost an embrace of everything toxic in masculinity.
When I first encountered the SSH I was curious about how much of the generic definition of the Sigma fit. But like you, there are shades of all designations. The more I read Vox though, the less I identified with the Sigma, which seemed mostly about contempt for women even as it is apparently OK to use them for their sexual "utility".
Situational SSH is a bit more useful. The natural gamma musician can become the alpha when on stage and enjoy the attention of groupies.
Vox may be a sigma in his personal life, but he acts like an over the top alpha when managing his comment sections --- and has full on gamma delusions and meltdowns when he gets out of his league. Claiming that all really successful business people got their by selling their souls is Secret Kinging to the max.
That a very astute observation of the SSH. Also the success paradigm. At the end what does it matter so long as you treat fellow Man well? Be the light in the darkness.
Absolutely. Knowing that which I put out is what I'll receive, I'm always trying to be kind until shown otherwise. I say "good morning/afternoon/evening" in my travels. "Excuse me" as I move around the public. Courtesy and manners are cornerstones of our society IMO. Things that defined our derivative of European culture.
I too read some of the Vox Day posts, and after two or three, started getting that sticky feeling of, "this is a psy-op". This was Andrew Tate meets Epstein, meets P. Diddy rolled up in pseudo-intellectual word salads.
It had the intrigue of "secrets to success", through the hushed world of sex and pecking orders.
And it's all bullshit. Good for you. I stopped reading it months ago.
Sigma is defined as however Vox is behaving that day. If he 'seems' to be acting like a sperging, wall of text gamma rage-venting, then that only shows your own inherent gammaness. Likewise, if it 'seems' like he's indulging in Q-Anon fantasies for weeks or months -- even in Jan/Feb of 2021! -- then it's just you, the imbecile, not able to understand his genius level intellectual exercises. And if he 'seems' to be defending Arianism while affirming the Nicene Creed, well... you get the idea. In this regard, he is no different than most Internet pundits.
It's odd, as in an earlier post he was incredibly aggressive and unhappy about the idea of "Gamma" men who lurk around the wives of their "betters" to snipe them. It could be there is no incoherence here as he admires the man who can "pull it off" as a Sigma, compared to a "contempible" gamma, but overall it screams inconsistency.
Additionally, he was deeply offended at Walt Bismarck's defense of polygamy, claiming it was Unchristian and "disgusting." Again, deliberate inconsistency.
If Voxday is going to be supporting the actions of Gilgamesh, the Alpha King who got bored and spent his time fucking the wives of his people to the point where they *pleaded to the Gods to deliver them from him*, he shouldn't be doing a Christ-Larp as well.
It can be sincerely said the guys who spend their time constantly trying to bang other men's wives probably need a real life (male friends they can actually spend time with and projects and adventures to do.)
Gilgamesh lives a much happier life when he has Enkidu to go fuck stuff up with.
Of all the defenders of the SSH, your comment is the most thoughtful. “Probably needs a real life” still though marginalizes the consequences of the behavior and actions of this character. I was never attacking the SSH, I was attacking this thing that makes so many fans of it insensitive to the real world consequences of such actions.
That is really all I was trying to do with this post and on Vox Day’ site, try to get them to admit how astoundingly immoral that character is. Vox Day just doubled down though, on calling me a whining midwit, lol.
Walt is another one. I respect him for his obvious intelligence and his courage, while I think most of his thinking is indistinguishable from materialist, globalist neoliberalism.
In some ways worse. At least our lords and masters pretend to have a bigger plan. whereas he is just by his own admission a self centered hedonist pirate, which basically means he is a slave to his desires. He needs to read E Michael Jones and then understand it...
Walter Bismarck is an idiot. I wonder how all that job stacking and that fintech crypto stored on computers will work out when shit goes south and the grid goes dark? I will use the toys while they are still powered up, but to think they will be here forever is shortsighted.
It's important to live in the world that is and not "bank" on an immediate collapse. Additionally, improving life now and gathering wealth grants a greater ability to develop community and material resiliency for dark times.
If he succeeds in his endeavor, we will all benefit. If he fails, he at least tried.
As a woman, wife, mother of five, grandmother, daughter, sister, friend, Christian; competent in many things and wisened by years of mistakes; I have thoughts. I read an article by Vox out of curiosity. (Click bait - he is good at what he does). Then I read several of his essays. What I found were the ravings of an insecure, repugnant, woman hating child, masquerading as a self confident 'alpha' male; pandering to man-boys just like him. He spews utter and complete culturally catastrophic nonsense. Rather than empowering men, he panders to their basest insecurities, responsibility dodging motivations and female hating tendencies. There is no introspection, only blame and peacocking. I actually feel sorry them all - if they continue in their current ideology, a lonely, bitter and woman loathing future awaits them. Ironically, he also teaches his "accolytes" to avoid men as well, as comparison and "Alpha vs Gamma" one-upping preclude the ability to maintain lasting male friendships. The best thing that could happen to him is that he barks into the abyss. Be thankful you are blocked. He did you a favor.
Vox Day responded with a post. I will merely point out that he did not comment on my post, nor can I comment on his site, which here in Minnesota we call passive aggressive.
https://sigmagame.substack.com/p/an-object-lesson-in-midwittery?triedRedirect=true
"I will merely point out that he did not comment on my post, nor can I comment on his site, which here in Minnesota we call passive aggressive."
Deciding there is no value in engaging with you and banning you from his substack is more accurately labeled assertive or aggressive.
It is not. You are this upset over some words on the internet? Hope you bury the somalians up there when its winter and the money runs out for them.
How upset?
Very. 1,629 words 9,266 characters
IDK, Vox seems more upset than I am.
They guy who is upset and wrote 2.66 times more words than Vox, thinks Vox is more upset. That is funnier than Joe 'the toe' Rogan's recent special.
How is the number of words used a sign of how upset a person is?
If you are not a Yes Man, you are a gamma. It's that simple. Vox is building a cult.
By the way, see Robert Anton Wilson's "Prometheus Rising" for a model of human behavior which bears great resemblance to the SSH.
Reading his comment section you would think that being a sigma meant being a SSH sycophant.
I ran into this in the Vox Populi days. Vox is never wrong and anyone who disagrees is a gamma. Now people literally pay at least $10/month to comment (Social Galactic) on his personal website. Imagine what a personal echo chamber does to a man's ego.
I wonder if he bans people from his paid site as fast as he does on his other comment sections.
I care so much I did not even know he had another site.
Peak sigma...
That is a fascinating question. I'm sure one is given time to adopt the proper opinions, perhaps a few months.
And the ability to overlook math errors on the part of the Man with the really high IQ.
Someone likes being special.
Typically wrong in every way, gamma. People pay at least $5 per month to Unauthorized.TV. SG is a free add-on not available separately.
And this is why i stopped following the dude.
Vox is interesting, I’ll continue to read his blog, but this sexual hierarchy theory of his is tendentious.. There’s obviously something to it in broad outline, but there seems to be something off with the gamma and sigma categories and analyses. Watching this Sigma blog unfold, I’m struck by the sense that Vox himself often exhibits behavior redolent of what he calls gamma-hood.. He’s an awful smart boy, Vox, and he has an awfully high opinion of himself. He doesn’t brook much criticism or dissent before turning to insults and banning. It’s not a good look, really, and smacks of some psychological and spiritual disorder, of arrogance, insecurity and pride.. Gamma qualities, in other words.
It's a good rough guide, and helps if you're trying to improve your standing, but it's hardly solid sociology (as if sociology could ever be a hard science, heheh).
Vox is almost always right, and takes great pains to be so. I've only ever seen one typo in reading him for over a decade.
That said, being high IQ and intolerant of the less intelligent/informed can leave you with huge blind spots.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -Samuel Clemens
He makes errors in mathematical logic that my high school math teacher could have caught. His first argument against free trade is pure cargo cult. Apparently he cannot tell the difference between a dependent and independent variable.
He also thinks Miles Mathis is a scientist.
But he pens great vampire comics, and I suspect he is the Fenris Wulf, who penned "Loki's Child" -- which is a brilliant comedy in league with Near Stephenson's works.
I'll take you at your word on the math, but there's a better (simpler) argument against free trade: The theory assumes at all times non-hostile participants. That alone is enough to make Autarky the only sane goal.
I don't know if he thinks that about Mathis, I know he believes him a good painter (IMO self-evident, he's accomplished) and that he's a Gamma (reasonably evident). I myself think Mathis should stick to painting (although his LOTR fan-fiction was entertaining enough I finished it).
The US is big enough to do Autarky. For small countries, there would be serious lifestyle downgrades.
With that written, there are plenty of good reasons for having a bias toward manufacturing at home. The Tree of Woe has an excellent list of arguments against free trade. https://treeofwoe.substack.com/p/against-free-trade
I kicked off my own Stack with an argument for significant revenue tariffs: https://rulesforreactionaries.substack.com/p/free-trade-isnt
It isn't necessary to refute Ricardo. It suffices to note that our current situation is different from Ricardo's premises. We have a welfare state and high income/labor taxes. Low tariffs under our current conditions constitute Subsidized Outsourcing, not Free Trade.
Regarding the math, GDP = Investment + Consumption + Government Spending + Exports - Imports.
Since we run perpetual trade deficits, eliminating trade would boost our GDP bigly -- if you look at the above formula through the mind of a college freshman. But that's what Vox did for this first argument against trade on his Darkstream.
Consumption is a function of imports, as anyone can tell with a quick trip to Walmart. GDP would not immediately jump up by the amount of our trade deficit were we to end foreign trade. It probably would rise up some as we frantically reopen old factories and bring engineers out of retirement to teach the younger generations how to operate them. But this would take time, and for consumer goods the near term inflation would be huge.
I'm just old enough to remember what it was like when we made our own stuff.
In the 1970s it paid to repair things because repairman labor prices were comparable to factory labor prices. It also still paid to patch clothing or even make clothing from scratch. High end department stores still sold dress patterns and cloth by the yard in the 1970s. Heathkit was a thriving business.
---
OK we all make boo boos. Even moi. But Vox maintains his boo boos because he cannot stand even friendly constructive criticism. And that's sad.
Yes and that was a better world, we had better quality stuff and it was less wasteful, and actually in the long term less expensive even. Sure prices for consumer goods were higher, but you could keep stuff running for decades. Now even "high end" Chinese import items like iphones literally can't be fixed and are landfill fodder in less than 10 years, and sometimes less than 5 years. The higher quality domestic stuff of the 70s had less tangible benefits too, like stereos that reproduced the full frequency spectrum, and regular cars that worked for whole families made by Union labor who received a living wage, so mom could stay home and take good care of the kids, and working class families could have a home they owned and a vacation cottage, and put their kids through college. Not everything can always be quantified.
Just because line go up on the GDP chart that measures how the parasitic on labor ((((investor class))), does, does not mean our quality of life for ordinary people has improved.
"The theory assumes at all times non-hostile participants." dismantles free trade as a bono. Furthermore, it also shows the folly of libertarianism when malicious actors are considered. (hello Chase Oliver!). There are hostile participants, and they are the fly in the ointment with liberty-oriented philosophies. I wish it weren't so, but wishes aren't real.
In defense of small-l libertarianism, when there’s a malicious actor, you sue them or shoot them (as merited).
Capital-L Libertarianism actually isn’t very libertarian at all.
Yep I had watched his "dark stream" videos years ago on youtube, but I have changed and he hasn't and I got banned from his Substack in a couple of weeks for having my own opinions. Consider it a point of pride to be on his block list.
Fuck him. I’m just about to block him. Read one and a half of the posts of his contained in the link, and all I would have to add is one of those parties that’s mentioned ad nauseoum would make a nice spot for a few hand grenades to go off. Fukn hell. I’d set them off myself if I was stuck in a room with these bunch of fuck wits. And one tier .. two tier .. 3 tier.. boom Mts!
He really is a pompous idiot. In his "dark stream" podcasts he would sit in a large hand carved wooden chair like a throne. Narcissist doesn't even being to cover his delusions of grandeur.
I’ll spare myself , and my poor eyeballs, the prospect of watching and listening to the guy. So thanks for the tip.
Hint he sounds like a fag, and looks like a goth dude from the 80s. :-) I mean literally like that Sprokets SNL skit.
Mfs not mts. Ffs. I just posted a couple of comments on one of his posts. It’s was a short post, thank God. Where’s the nuance in these peoples thinking? I don’t get it it. It is a cult. Fuck!!!
I saw him once in a podcast video. He must be a sigma, I thought, to attract all those beautiful women he talks about.
Talks about, as I have said, I think he is a fag.
😂
If I were a tiny bald man, I would probably be just as cringe-worthy as vox. Let him have his fun.
It's because like any other NPC scripting, it is intrinsically contradictive. If you understand females, you won't respect them and certainly will not consider them a metric of objective value. But like all the other alphabet soup glowniggers, it exists as controlled opposition keeping men consooming.
A real human would consider that the only insult either of them could offer you is their approval.
That was my thinking too, I figured he just invented the "Sigma" rank to cover-up being a high-achieving Gamma. But the other day he posted a picture of himself in his lifting days and bro was swole af, so I guess I'm wrong again.
The SSH is a concept that seems to have some utility but I agree that Vox and his commenters use the idea of being a sigma as a way to excuse being an asshole.
I don't like the SSH system. It is too simple, and there is a bit of microevolutionary thought that adds to the problem of oversimplification.
Maybe a future version of SSH is more interesting as a framework for development of characters. I think as it is today it doesn't have enough play between the categories. How is the character going to tell the writer where he is going if the famework does not tell enough about how he is going to react to other characters? I think Vox Day probably reserves many details of his system for himself, and he may be secretly hoping that the readers discover those for themselves by reading his books. If so, he expects too much from people.
I have not read Vox's article (or any of Vox's articles), but I did read the comment thread you posted. The idea that 'typical male patterns of behavior' have nothing to do with morality and that someone has 'zero control over whether you [they] are a Sigma or not' are, gosh, I don't even know the right word. "Insane" doesn't seem strong enough. I know there are some men who are not guided by morality, but to make the blanket statement that all male behavior has nothing to do with morality does not align with my life experiences. And the idea that someone has zero control if they are a Sigma or anything else just seems like a way of abdicating responsibility for your actions.
Good for you for being willing to read differing viewpoints. People like that make me shudder and I just avoid them. ;-)
I thought you stood up to the roar and din with great aplomb.
It just went over their heady heads, haha
So bizarre. Such a strange worldview. Thanks for at least trying to interject some logic into their thought process. The being moral by being immoral really is odd. Just a hunch, but methinks that most of these self-professed “sigmas” aren’t exactly getting laid as much as they’d like us to think.
That kind of seems what it is about. How to get laid whenever you want, no consequences.
Yep, which as I stated above is the gay male attitude.
In my part of the world, adulterers get stoned and fornicators get flogged. And that’s assuming ‘the authorities’ get there before the husband, father, brother, etc does.
The SSH is amoral (not immoral) and descriptive. But the moment you make it normative, it’s a dead end. Society without morality simply devolves into barbarism and retribution without end.
They were keen to remind me about that amoral bit, while they entirely ignored the moral part, which I took to be most instructive and immoral. Which barbarism and retribution seems to be the place we are being dragged by the managerial state, which I don't care about any Alpha or Sigma who is more concerned about sex than that.
Something else to consider:
‘The lone wolf who is successful with the ladies despite being outside the hierarchy’…
That’s a longer way of saying ‘Golden Horde target’ or even ‘Dead man walking’
I never understood the fascination with being the ‘lone ranger’ 🤣 that obsession will lead to quite a few dead men over the next few years.
It is an American twist on the archetype of the wise man monast, but the future is who and what is your community protection.
Yes and no, see what I wrote above.
As a hermit I would put a twist on that. For sure a conspicuous hermit with lots of hot women and food, is going to be decimated by marauders when our empire collapses. The humble hidden hermit, with wisdom but no material thing worth stealing will be passed by. Marauders are uncultured barbarians and have no interest in books, or other things quasi-monks own.
As JMG says, if the four horsemen show up at your door, offer some homebrew
That's because you retardly took "sigma" to be a moral endorsement, which it's not and never has been.
"Presumably, though it is not stated, he seeks out men to befriend, in order to fuck their female partner. This is not couched in any discussion, not the least concern, by Vox Day, he seemed to see that as a mere explication of the Sigma character"
He did mention it was an amoral analysis. Would it be correct to say that your disagreement is that he didn't spend any time condemning the specific behavior? I imagine it would be the same if he posted a man who formed a 100 man gang and raided a town and took control of it - pure alpha behavior whose thoughts and processes may be worth examining in the SSH lens although the specific behavior may have been immoral.
I had never heard of this Vox Day person so I had to read some of the links embedded and...it's very cultish. They've got their own hierarchy of language and this Vox person seems quite full of himself. Is this one of those Andrew Tate how to land a hot woman expose sites? None of it is in depth or insightful. I'll stick to astrology thanks...
He’s quite a big deal ;) It is a little like Andrew Tate without the kickboxing. You should write more about astrology, yes?
LOL I suppose I should write more astrology! I'm presuming if the title of your blog is accurate then you are a sensitive cancer, which explains a lot about why this sigma thing would rub you the wrong way: there's a strong appeal to tradition and moral stances. For me I'm turned off by Vox's strong generalizations about women (he strikes me as a Sagitarrius, though I don't know). The pseudo pop psychology is a bit too masculine for my taste. Keep in mind my major in college was psychology-human sexual relations, though I moved over to marriage and the family in sociology for graduate school. These binaries strike me as way too simplistic
Vox said once he is a Virgo.
If we use the Sun house system Sagittarius is the sign of the 4th house for all Virgos.
Which is funny because the 4th House is in analogy with Cancer, and the Moon, and the IC: the Mother, Womanhood, family, the household, etc.
You are detecting those "strong generalizations about women" because of the skepticism of Sagittarius.
For me, the fun thing about Virgo is third house of Scorpio and the ninth house of Taurus. This is a tragedy for an author and an intellectual: the Virgo writer aspires to be an optimist but has to accept being a mere critic.
LOL!I am used to being wrong, though Virgo doesn't sound far off either. Hilariously my daughter was talking about it this morning with me: I mentioned the whole alpha sigma beta gamma classifications and Jasmine sighed and said "This is just astrology for men."
So then she did this thing she does sometimes, but this time asking me to write the story and explain it to her: "Okay Mom. 5/7 with 7/14."
"Gender classifications, if any?" I asked her.
"Uhm, male and female I guess. Classic love story."
"Names?
"Lily and Daniel."
"Okay I want Dan to be the Taurus here. Lily is the Cancer. So Dan looks down at his new intern from his executive role, his desire spilling out. Lily pushes her glasses nervously closer to her face, feeling his stare. Taurus Cancer is not really good or bad per day, but that's how I'd see it playing out. In numerology terms both of them would have an element of luck."
"Why?"
"Well 7-14 is 21, Blackjack. I like both 5 and 7, which add up to 12, an anagram of 21. A strange chance would bring them together in the story. If the gender roles were reversed luck would still play a part, but I'd see Dan the Cancer in this role as more of an outcast rebel. Lily the Taurus might have even been the one who screwed him over before, leading to the primary tension of never being able to trust and open up versus what is going on in this mysterious mind.."
LMAO!
That's very cool, Amy.
If Taurus Daniel had Mars in Scorpio and Cancer Lilly had Moon in Capricorn, Dan could be sending her mysterious presents for years before she realized he was interested.
LOL! I should write the story!
My serious musing to Jasmine earlier today was that I used to read smut romantic fiction and despite the fact that basically every in real life woman and most men I know have considered this at some point in serious romantic relationships, it is absolutely never mentioned in smut, except as a plot contrivance. Like in 50 Shades of Grey the last of those I read I'm pretty sure the heroine was Taurus while the hero was Gemini, but their birthday parties were just used to pull the plot forward and neither character seemed real consistent with their (never mentioned) sign....
I remember Vox proclaiming he could beat Joe Rogan in a fight 😂. Here’s “gamma” kickboxer manifest by the charlatan himself.
https://youtu.be/13DjyejeJ_0?si=Dr4vxb4j4W9lT6g4
“anyone who has fighting experience…” lol
He goes back way further in alt-right sphere than Andrew Tate, and is smarter but at the end of the day is a liar and grifter like Tate.
I don't know why those who would look askance at people labelling themselves with genderqueer titles or other social groupings would put so much effort into trying to label themselves in a similar fashion. Personally, I just see the same seething and in/out group politics motivating all of it, a need to label all human personality and interaction so as to define oneself as 'other to' in comparison (generally as 'superior to', but that's unspoken).
"Superior to" I think is the key takeaway. It is a very common human tendency, to assume me and my in-group have an inside track on God's grace.
I find the SSH to be somewhat useful but highly lacking. Hate to bring Venn Diagrams into the discussion but mostly people are 4-5 overlapping ovals of behavior. I'd say I'm a Delta with some Bravo overlap and some Gamma tendencies (I fall into the "actually" trap occasionally). The whole thing is useful for self-examination and introspection but useless when someone in a parasocial situation is diagnosing you as the diagnosis is always GAMMA.
Vox is doing a lot of good things with Arkhaven and Castalia House. I like his fantasy series. Things go off the rails with the public face he presents. Anything anti-Western is good and holy despite evidence to the contrary (none of his sources on Russia, for instance, live in Russia). Ask Strelkov how free speech is in Russia. Nary an article on Chinese Social Credit. I find his excusing, really an endorsement, of belt-notching and "gaming" women to be immoral. It's almost an embrace of everything toxic in masculinity.
When I first encountered the SSH I was curious about how much of the generic definition of the Sigma fit. But like you, there are shades of all designations. The more I read Vox though, the less I identified with the Sigma, which seemed mostly about contempt for women even as it is apparently OK to use them for their sexual "utility".
Situational SSH is a bit more useful. The natural gamma musician can become the alpha when on stage and enjoy the attention of groupies.
Vox may be a sigma in his personal life, but he acts like an over the top alpha when managing his comment sections --- and has full on gamma delusions and meltdowns when he gets out of his league. Claiming that all really successful business people got their by selling their souls is Secret Kinging to the max.
That a very astute observation of the SSH. Also the success paradigm. At the end what does it matter so long as you treat fellow Man well? Be the light in the darkness.
Be good and kind with people generally, be like the sword of God with those who don't?
Absolutely. Knowing that which I put out is what I'll receive, I'm always trying to be kind until shown otherwise. I say "good morning/afternoon/evening" in my travels. "Excuse me" as I move around the public. Courtesy and manners are cornerstones of our society IMO. Things that defined our derivative of European culture.
Dudes sitting around obsessing about how ‘sigma’ they are is gay as fuck. And Vox is no exception.
If you were half the sigma I am, you'd be twice as arrogant.
I too read some of the Vox Day posts, and after two or three, started getting that sticky feeling of, "this is a psy-op". This was Andrew Tate meets Epstein, meets P. Diddy rolled up in pseudo-intellectual word salads.
It had the intrigue of "secrets to success", through the hushed world of sex and pecking orders.
And it's all bullshit. Good for you. I stopped reading it months ago.
Sigma is defined as however Vox is behaving that day. If he 'seems' to be acting like a sperging, wall of text gamma rage-venting, then that only shows your own inherent gammaness. Likewise, if it 'seems' like he's indulging in Q-Anon fantasies for weeks or months -- even in Jan/Feb of 2021! -- then it's just you, the imbecile, not able to understand his genius level intellectual exercises. And if he 'seems' to be defending Arianism while affirming the Nicene Creed, well... you get the idea. In this regard, he is no different than most Internet pundits.
It's odd, as in an earlier post he was incredibly aggressive and unhappy about the idea of "Gamma" men who lurk around the wives of their "betters" to snipe them. It could be there is no incoherence here as he admires the man who can "pull it off" as a Sigma, compared to a "contempible" gamma, but overall it screams inconsistency.
Additionally, he was deeply offended at Walt Bismarck's defense of polygamy, claiming it was Unchristian and "disgusting." Again, deliberate inconsistency.
If Voxday is going to be supporting the actions of Gilgamesh, the Alpha King who got bored and spent his time fucking the wives of his people to the point where they *pleaded to the Gods to deliver them from him*, he shouldn't be doing a Christ-Larp as well.
>NPC falls inconsistent and ever shifting programming script
Many such cases!
>Gilgamesh
Funny, given how much the Enkidu Gambit makes them seethe.
True, true.
It can be sincerely said the guys who spend their time constantly trying to bang other men's wives probably need a real life (male friends they can actually spend time with and projects and adventures to do.)
Gilgamesh lives a much happier life when he has Enkidu to go fuck stuff up with.
Of all the defenders of the SSH, your comment is the most thoughtful. “Probably needs a real life” still though marginalizes the consequences of the behavior and actions of this character. I was never attacking the SSH, I was attacking this thing that makes so many fans of it insensitive to the real world consequences of such actions.
Ah, I was agreeing with you that no one should defend that MC of the book as some kind of inspiring hero.
I was just understating for effect.
Really, the only reason no one killed Gilgamesh was because he was the King. This guy should have been put down.
That is really all I was trying to do with this post and on Vox Day’ site, try to get them to admit how astoundingly immoral that character is. Vox Day just doubled down though, on calling me a whining midwit, lol.
Ah, and anything that enables the worst kinds of female hypergamy is *bad*.
Walt at least framed it in the context of stealing a single highly capable woman, like a raid, rather than purposefully finding married women to bang.
Walt is another one. I respect him for his obvious intelligence and his courage, while I think most of his thinking is indistinguishable from materialist, globalist neoliberalism.
In some ways worse. At least our lords and masters pretend to have a bigger plan. whereas he is just by his own admission a self centered hedonist pirate, which basically means he is a slave to his desires. He needs to read E Michael Jones and then understand it...
Walter Bismarck is an idiot. I wonder how all that job stacking and that fintech crypto stored on computers will work out when shit goes south and the grid goes dark? I will use the toys while they are still powered up, but to think they will be here forever is shortsighted.
I reserve judgement, here.
It's important to live in the world that is and not "bank" on an immediate collapse. Additionally, improving life now and gathering wealth grants a greater ability to develop community and material resiliency for dark times.
If he succeeds in his endeavor, we will all benefit. If he fails, he at least tried.
"Wealth" is a Jew invention that dead commodities are more important than life.
As a woman, wife, mother of five, grandmother, daughter, sister, friend, Christian; competent in many things and wisened by years of mistakes; I have thoughts. I read an article by Vox out of curiosity. (Click bait - he is good at what he does). Then I read several of his essays. What I found were the ravings of an insecure, repugnant, woman hating child, masquerading as a self confident 'alpha' male; pandering to man-boys just like him. He spews utter and complete culturally catastrophic nonsense. Rather than empowering men, he panders to their basest insecurities, responsibility dodging motivations and female hating tendencies. There is no introspection, only blame and peacocking. I actually feel sorry them all - if they continue in their current ideology, a lonely, bitter and woman loathing future awaits them. Ironically, he also teaches his "accolytes" to avoid men as well, as comparison and "Alpha vs Gamma" one-upping preclude the ability to maintain lasting male friendships. The best thing that could happen to him is that he barks into the abyss. Be thankful you are blocked. He did you a favor.